, which is no deal without some increase in rates, or we go over the cliff. >> let me just add one thing. when obama made that initial offer, we talked a little bit about how, you know, it was a wish list. it was ideological, whatever you want to say. i think it actually helped boehner in some respects because it gave him three or four things that he could then go back to his caucus and say, look, i moved obama off of this, this and this. and when boehner put his offer out there, you started to see what could potentially be a chip-trading process going on here, whereby you have some give on, you know, cpi, the inflation index for social security, and in exchange boehner would agree to some marginal rate in the tax rates. now the people need to start figuring out what they want to give and take. >> the only difference i would say, steve, between what the president wants and john boehner is it's not what john boehner wants. it's what john boehner can deliver. >> yeah. >> and this is a simple vote-counting measure. in his first interview since the election, president obama reiterated his de